"To assess the role of inflammation on skeletal cell differentiation, we used mouse models of fracture repair that stimulate either intramembranous or endochondral ossification. In the first model, fractures are rigidly stabilized leading to direct bone formation, while in the second model, fracture instability causes cartilage and bone formation. We compared the inflammatory response in these two mechanical environments and found changes in the expression patterns of inflammatory genes and in the recruitment of inflammatory cells and osteoclasts. We then exploited matrix metalloproteinase 9 (MMP9) that is expressed in inflammatory cells and osteoclasts, which is a potential regulator of cell fate decisions during fracture repair. Mmp9-/- mice heal stabilized fractures via endochondral ossification, while wild type mice heal via intramembranous ossification[So to grow taller being MMP knockout may be better]. In parallel, we observed increases in macrophages and T cells in the callus of Mmp9-/- compared to wild type mice. To assess the link between the profile of inflammatory cells and skeletal cell fate functionally, we transplanted Mmp9-/- mice with wild type bone marrow, to reconstitute a wild type hematopoietic lineage in interaction with the Mmp9-/- stroma and periosteum. Following transplantation, Mmp9-/- mice healed stabilized fractures via intramembranous ossification and exhibited a normal profile of inflammatory cells. Mmp9-/- periosteal grafts healed via intramembranous ossification in wild type hosts, but healed via endochondral ossification in Mmp9-/- hosts. We observed that macrophages accumulated at the periosteal surface in Mmp9-/- mice, suggesting that cell differentiation in the periosteum is influenced by factors such as BMP2 that are produced locally by inflammatory cells. MMP9 mediates indirect effects on skeletal cell differentiation by regulating the inflammatory response and the distribution of inflammatory cells, leading to the local regulation of periosteal cell differentiation."
The mice were 12-16 weeks old. Mast cells(connective tissue cell) typically produce MMP9. Fractures were produced by three point bending loading.
"Inflammatory mediators such as tumor necrosis factor-α (TNFα) are required for bone formation but can also impair later stages of repair by stimulating cartilage degradation"
"The role of Cox2 is counterbalanced by 5-lipoxygenase (5-LO) and leukotriene inhibitors can stimulate cartilage and bone formation in the early phase of repair through direct actions on chondrocytes"<-Grow taller with leukotriene inhibitors? Pharmacological inhibition of 5-lipoxygenase accelerates and enhances fracture-healing. states that 5-LO inhibition via AA-861 increased COL2, COX2, COL10, and osteopontin. Celecoxib[COX2 inhibitor] also increased COL2.
"MMP9−/− but not wild type skeletal progenitors differentiate into chondrocytes in both non-stabilized and stabilized fractures"
"the presence of Mmp9−/− inflammatory cells alone was not sufficient to induce chondrogenic cell differentiation at the fracture site. "
"Osteoclast recruitment was impaired in Mmp9−/− fracture calluses and bone marrow transplants rescued the cartilage remodeling defects in non-stabilized fractures via providing MMP9-expressing osteoclasts. This result was in concordance with the rescue of the growth plate phenotype in Mmp9−/− developing long bones"
"the recruitment of T cells and macrophages was affected [in] Mmp9−/− fracture calluses"
"This indirect effect of MMP9 on periosteal cell fate was via the regulation of macrophage localization. Only macrophages were located within the periosteum to locally influence chondrogenic and osteogenic cell differentiation. CD4 + T cells were found away from the periosteum, and so are unlikely to have an effect on chondrogenesis and osteogenesis."
"MMP9 acts indirectly at the level of the periosteum"
"Ectopic localization of macrophages in the periosteum of Mmp9−/− stabilized fractures may be responsible for the induction of endochondral ossification as we found an increase in BMP2 expression."
"MMP9 indirectly regulates angiogenesis by regulating the bioavailability of VEGF"
"the lack of MMP9 in both the periosteum and inflammatory cells was responsible for the cartilage phenotype."
Genes upregulated in Unstablized versus Stabilized(MMP9 knockout) at Day 7 that were also upregulated(or -down) by LSJL:
All below are signal transduction related molecules:
COL10A1
C1QTNF3
COL12A1
COL11A1
COL6A1
PTN
MOXD1
ASPN
EDIL3
NOV
LRIG3(down)
TNN
COL16A1
EMILIN3
DKK3
COL1A1
PTGS2
MATN4
HTRA1
Col9A1
MATN3
Col9A2
SMOC2
THBS3
CSPG4
THBS2
CCL21C
COL2A1
KERA
Glycoprotein Related:
TNMD
COL13A1
PRSS35
EPHA3
GPR88(down)
Car12
HAPLN1
Cell Differentiation:
Sox9
COL13A1
ALDH1A3(down)[an enzyme produced by retinoic acid]
NR4A2
SLITRK6
OTHER:
WNT2
LSJL was highly homologous to the most chondrogenic stimulation group in the study MMP9-/- unstabilized fractgure.
Genes upregulated in stabilized versus unstabilized MMP9 KO mice that were also altered in LSJL
So these are essentially downregulated by unstabilized mice:
CCL2(up)
CXCL5
CXCL1(up)
IL6(up)
CD14(up)
Unstabilized non-MMP9 knockout on day 7 versus pre-fracture gene upregulation that were also upregulated(or -downregulated) by LSJL:
Saa3
CCL2
CXCL1
IL6
SERPINA3N
CXCL5(down)
CCL7
CD276
CFI
ANXA8
At day 2 these are the genes that are also upregulated by LSJL that were not previously reported above:
IL1RL1
LSJL produces a similar gene expression profile to MMP9-/- and Unstabilized fracture mice which were pro-chondrogenic thus providing further evidence that LSJL is pro-chondrogenic. No change in MMP9 expression was reported due to LSJL.
Tyler question for you
ReplyDeletewhy do you think results are so minimal from lsjl?
what do you think would need to be added to lsjl or modified to make it exert more effect to gain (3 inches +) results?
-
why is it so slow? what are your realist expectations and why?
im tired of not growing, we need something. plz, i wish you all the best with your research i really do, but why oh why is this lsjl not showing growth??
ReplyDeleteMaybe LSJL isn't the best method to induce growth. I think bone stretching is.
Deletedont want to sound like an impatient brat, but just saying it bluntly..
ReplyDeleteI am interested in the bones grow in width as well as length. How can I increase the thickness of the periosteum? Exercise + TGFbeta + Sox9?
ReplyDeleteFrom what I gather about the lsjl research, it was done on mice whose epiphisis were not yet closed. Lsjl has not been scientifically proven on adults of any species.
ReplyDeleteIt initially seemed like it may work so the blogger claimed that he tried it and that it did work on him, in order to entice others to try it and experiment on themselves as well.
It may yet work but it seems there was an attempt to recruit people into experimenting on themselves and those people needed to believe that it could work in order to put themselves through the experimentation.
There was even a post here called "Can lsjl work on adults?" There seems to be doubts even with the biggest proponent of LSJL.
LSJL is also based on in vitro(petri dish) studies that have shown that hydrostatic pressure, fluid flow, and LIPUS can induce chondrogenic differentiation on adult human Bone Marrow MSCs.
DeleteYou can look here and measure pixels to see for length gain: http://www.heightquest.com/2011/04/lsjl-photo-proof.html
The problem is getting past adaptation to load so I have to try various durations and deconditioning period since I'm one experimenter this takes time.
tyler tell me how i can help you! serously we need to speed up progress here, your doing an amazing job compiling research.. but wheres the working method?!
ReplyDeletejust tell me how i can help you make things happen faster here, i really want a lsjl method that would give 2-3 inches! or is that a wrong expectation?? but please, inform us if you can. what is the expectations you expect from LSJL?? the other best option left seems to be distraction osteogenesis. why does that one cause such rapid growth?
The are a number of ways you can help.
DeleteYou can test LIPUS or provide alternative testing to LSJL. The problem is mechanosensativity so I can't test more than one method at a time because I might not get results with one method just because the cells like sensitivity.
3-5 minutes with at least 100N of load(that's the number they put out in their patent for humans). 100N could be ten pound pounds if you push it down with 20 times the force of gravity. I wonder if there's a way we can measure force.
If you have lab connections there are multiple ways you can help.
LSJL should have unlimited growth potential but adaptation to load is the biggest problem.
Growth Response seems to be based on peak load and distraction osteogenesis causes the largest stimulus via fracture.
so its this?: "LSJL should have unlimited growth potential - adaptation to load is the biggest problem."
Deletemechanosensativity, maximal load, adaption?
those the limiting factors of getting growth from lsjl?
is it possible to create a sort of self made pseudo distraction osteogenesis?you say results are because of fracture? really?, so then we perhaps could integrate fracture into lsjl? right?
and is there any threshold when trying to get to maximal load? is it safe or to you reach points where it can't go further because of obstacles regarding safety,etc/?
yeah i think the best way to help this progress faster and successful we need to do LSJL @ ourselves and as mentioned by tyler ADAPTATION to load is biggest problem
Deleteand tyler i think you should mention the answer to------->Can you explain the difference between static and dynamic pressure? It seems that compressing the bone continuously for a period of time would be static pressure and dynamic pressure involves force applied for short intervals several times per second. --------
ALL THE BEST GUYs
What about bone calcification? Isn't it true that we cannot grow anymore, even with LSJL, once our growth plates have calcified completely into bones? The only way at that point is through surgery?
Deletemaybe it would work if we had a larger population of stem cells? does lsjl cause stem cell multiplication or does it just act as a releaser by forming cracks in the bone?
ReplyDeleteLSJL upregulates HMGA2 and Lin28B which increase stem cells. Increasing number of stem cells is important as stem cell density is pro-chondrogenic.
DeleteWe don't know if LSJL forms cracks in the bone.
i mean micro fractures- how the stem cells get leaked out from bone marrow.
Deleteyou said lsjl causes stem cells to escape from the bone or bone marrow,\
DeleteCan you explain the difference between static and dynamic pressure? It seems that compressing the bone continuously for a period of time would be static pressure and dynamic pressure involves force applied for short intervals several times per second.
ReplyDeleteI've asked this question before but didn't get a response. Sorry for the bother!
when something is static it doesn't change position,
DeleteMy point then is that the method of compression using a clamp described in the "experimental LSJL routine" seems to be static pressure. I've read in multiple places though that static compression actually tends to have a negative effect on chondrocyte proliferation. Tapping would seem to be more akin to dynamic pressure.
DeleteCan someone point out the flaw in my thinking?
My point then is that the method of compression using a clamp described in "Experimental LSJL routine" seems to be static pressure. I've read in several papers though that static pressure has a negative effect on chondrocyte proliferation while dynamic pressure generally has a positive effect. Tapping which would seem more akin to dynamic pressure.
DeleteCan someone point out the flaw in my thinking?
That's why I recommend you constantly turn the clamp to make it more dynamic. You could use tapping but could you generate 100N of force per tap and do it 5 to 15 times per second?
DeleteWith clamping the more you've clamped it already the more force required to move the ratchet. And you can turn the ratchet continuously if you have the clamp in a non-painful position.
Make sure your foot is straight and don't let your leg move while turning the ratchet.
How expensive is a LIPUS machine that you could use at your home and that is powerful enough to get the results you are seeking should your experimentation with ultra sound and lsjl work?
ReplyDeleteAbout $1500? Can you afford that? I know people that spend more than that on soft drinks and coffee in a year.
If LIPUS can take lsjl to the next level then you should make it your goal to get a lipus machine. Would you need 2 of them? One for each leg? I won't go into it in this post but, if you could reliably lengthen people's legs by an inch or more, money would be the last of your worries. The problem now is that people aren't certain that you actually increased your leg length at all, and it's hard to tell anything definitive in the photos. And, if you did, why can't others...or why so very few others? The other thing is that most people won't want their ankles or knees widened to any deformed looking degree in the process . People don't want to trade one problem for another. Also, symmetrical results would be expected. Younger people on the forum here might not care about deforming their ankles/knees and having one leg end up being shorter than the other but most adults would find that unacceptable.
LIPUS on amazon costs about 60$. But there may be better options.
Deletemost of the pressure is caused by water right, hydrostatic movement of the synovial fluid? so we need to exert more movement of that synovial fluid.
ReplyDeletewould it be possible to move the water with like pulsed magnetic fields? or something like a pulsed wave? i know you mention lipus, but we need to cause the water to move right? so we need something that can influence its movement outside of the body, unless there was a way to do it inside,
DeleteOR maybe just focus on getting stemcells, if that is the point.
Have you read all the posts on PEMF, electro accupressure, etc.?
DeleteLIPUS has been validated on adult stem cells in vitro to induce chondrogenesis. PEMF hasn't, I believe some electrical stimulation has shown validity however.
PEMF is definitely worth testing. I think maybe in conjunction with LSJL as the genes that it upregulates are different but that could be due to different species and ages. Tommorrow I'll go over all the electricity posts.
i was looking at water methods you mentioned:http://www.heightquest.com/search?q=water
DeleteIt seems this post is getting quite a few responses. The best approach seems to be able to induce as much chondrocytes in the epiphysis as possible and hope they can remodel the bones by stretching it out
ReplyDeleteremember the law is that the more you remodel the bones, the harder and more adaptable the bones become to external stimuli.
my guess it that If we can combine our brains, we should be able to get a working less invasive faster surgical method within 10-20 years. i have no idea if you did grow that much. my coworker doesn't believe you. if you did, then you are doing something right.
ReplyDelete"a working less invasive faster surgical method within 10-20 years" Natural Height Growth quote
The whole idea of lsjl is supposed to be NON-surgical bone growth, not less invasive faster surgical methods. Basically, "weight training" for the bones.
It doesn't necessarily have to be anything close to a 10 to 20 year ordeal. I think the problem with experimenting in this fashion is that 'height increase' attracts a lot of kids, for obvious reasons, but not enough adults. You can see immaturity in a lot of the posts on the forum. Adults are resigned to the "fact" that they're not going to grow any taller. If the word gets out to enough adults that height increase is a possibility then the entire dynamic changes dramatically. There needs to be a combination of (1)grown ups, (2)people who are familiar with the studies and have a scientific background,(3)adults that have reached their full natural height but are interested in taking it further(4)people willing to test things out themselves.
Tyler, keep in mind that you want to bring this to attention of adults. Right now adults aren't interested as much or at all because most have accepted that their current height not going to ever increase. Adults have the money. Adults equal funding. If you have 3000 or so serious adults reading your blog then you could easily raise whatever money you need to conduct research. There are dozens of lift wearing celebrities that would pay 6 figures if you gave them an inch in height. Adults, Tyler, Adults! But you have to reach that audience and as good as a job you're currently doing it could be better and height increase could be your full time job.
and the point of testing lsjl is to do what? we need a working method, is that going to provide any information that it works? if testers dont get any results then what?
DeleteWell we can't derive anything if someone gets no results as it could be a number of different reasons. The goal is to get someone with results and to get testing until we find the best method.
DeleteOne person does tapping. One Person does LIPUS. One does clamping non-stop. The other person takes breaks to increase sensitivity to load.
We're sure that osteocyte sensitivity to load decreases over time but not quite sure about chondrogenic response(although BMP-2 decreased after two weeks and that is chondroinductive).
Height Increase is an attractive place for research because there's not a lot of research by adults compared to how easy it is say compared to cancer research.
DeleteBut that also makes it hard to find resources.
If you have an idea of how to reach adults then please share. According to the Analytics data scientists(there's been a couple visits from West Lafayatte which is where Yokota is in Purdue) do visit the site sometimes but they bounce after only a few seconds. They won't give the site a chance. I've tried tweeting celebrities with height complexes like Ryan Seacrest but no luck.
maybe you should seek them instead of waiting for them to stay longer on the site, it would be better to just keep sending that collaboration request/or something of interest to them and proof of your ideas, just badger them until they give in.
Deletebest comments ever...
Deletei like this blog because
i spent a lot of money for height increase scams like yoko height mfIII growtaller growthflex
etc etc.
AND ALL SCAMS ARE MENTIONED HERE BY TYLER...
i know for sure tyler is researcher and well said that its good topic or place to do research as compared to others like carcinomas and common leading causes of deaths esp heart diseases stroke and breast cancer
we should try to involve adults and celebrities too BUT its gona take time and WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT ..its NOT LIKE A MAGIC MEDICINE that we take and gona see results quickly..a lot needed to be done...
AND FOR ALL USERS we should contribute positively to this research as a orthopedic i am sure there is a connection b/w LSJL/LIPUS and osteogenesis/chondrogenesis...
goood luck with work..
i dont see why the scientist dont want to speak with you tyler? what do you think is the reason for that seriously why would they ignore this site? this site has done mostly everything right to look credible, you show lots of science and your researching "their" lsjl method they created, why would they ignore your questions then? perhaps if the scientist doesnt want to speak then maybe his assistants or lab partners may be more open to discussion? i just dont see why the scientist wouldnt be open to discussing with you, perhaps he cant read english? need a site translation? i just dont understand it, it doesnt seem right.
DeleteThe reason is that the world is not a nice place. Most people who are strangers don't care about you until you either show you can create a product or provide a service they need or secretly desire.
DeleteRemember that until you hit and reach success, people won't care. Once you do find a real height increase solution, the people and the media will start coming and try to suck up to you.
Do you think anyone would have cared about Einstein if he has not been able to have his miracle year?
tyler take a break if you need it, youve provided a lot of research for us so its ok if you need a rest. i just hope this height research isnt a dead end thats all.
ReplyDelete