Some people have reported not getting results with LSJL. I encourage you to post pics of you not getting results for one. And then do a clamp test on your finger to see if you can gain length. You can gain a little bit of length there just with pinching but you need to clamp(Bar-clamp is superior to C-class for fingers) for more gains. If you can gain finger length then you can know if your technique is correct.
I have been wanting to grow taller for over five years so I don't clamp with 100% mental efficiency all the time. So you don't need perfect technique to grow. If you don't grow after three months it's okay if you stop. I realize that people will need an overwhelming amount of proof to believe in a grow taller method.
Sky's Limbcenter Clinic should have been covered by media outlets. Kojima's clinic should have received western media attention. Sky's Clinic has disappeared despite having promising elements. Bone stretching is provable on animals by a layman. Just apply Sky's levers to a Sprague-Dawley rat and measure the increase in bone length. It would be expensive to get all the tools but it would be doable by a layman. And you wouldn't get to see the direct effect on the Type I Collagen fibers without specialized equipment.
The LSJL studies should have also gotten more coverage.
Basically, us height seekers have our work cut out for us. And I'm probably going to have to gain quite a bit of finger length in you tube videos to inspire people's imaginations. It's probably not going to be enough for a bunch of people to gain a little bit of height. So if you don't gain height in three months then feel free to take a break for a while until the method is more refined. But please post before and after pics and do some clamping on your finger as well.
Nice news, Tyler! Have you ever thought of contacting a researcher in a University and work together to further develop LSJL technique and scientifically prove it works?
ReplyDeleteCongratulations on your success Tyler!! I'm hoping to gain an inch by using LSJL myself--how important do you think continuity of routine is? Could I take breaks longer than 2 days and still appreciate results, albeit a little longer time to achieve?
ReplyDeleteIt seems like there are parallels between weight training and LSJL. The scientist(s) who did the initial experimentation was trying out something that he believed he'd get some results from and apparently did. However, the body may become accustomed to the stress and need more intensity or more prolonged stress.
ReplyDeleteMultiple sets of pressure may prove more beneficial.
The main factor preventing me from trying LSJL is the possibility of simply enlarging the bone width-wise and none(or very little) vertically. To make one's knee bigger/wider would look bad. Big wide knees are a unaesthetic, negative trait. There also seems to be little LSJL experimentation on the upper femur near the great trochanter and no LSJL experimentation on the spine.
There doesn't seem to be much posting of a straight on shot of the leg, just this down the leg point-of-view shot which means very little.
Show a pic of how the leg looks to everyone else, not a pov shot looking down the leg, it's meaningless.
In my opinion there is way too much emphasis on
supplements on the forum. Results are going to come from the pressure on the bone. People talking about Niacin, etc... are throwing their money down the drain. Supplements are just a diversion. On the blog it's fine to say "could this supplement work?, etc.." but to actually place a lot of emphasis/reliance on supplement pills is ridiculous, they're not even remotely steroids ,GH or insulin.How the pressure is applied is by far the most important factor.
You are wise to wait for a noticeable difference lengthwise in the finger experiment. It looks like you went from 3.5" to 3.5" inches. I've watched the final video and the first one and the finger looks the same length and apparently measured the same length. Was the measurement before and after the same?
Finger length went from a little under 3.5" to a little over 3.5" now. You don't see that difference? I have had to look at it numerous times to try to start the measurement at the same spot.
ReplyDeleteFor POV versus overhead leg shot: There are problems with every leg measurement system. If you dissect the photographs you'll be able to see if there was length gain. Until then there's the finger length comparison.
As for supplements, no supplements(so far) can induce chondrogenic differentiation but they can induce faster height growth, more height growth per stem cell and per chondrocyte, and they can also increase stem cell proliferation. The latter is why it can be helpful during puberty. Many commonly available substances may be more powerful than illegal ones, the availability of a substance has nothing to do with their power.
The muscle analogy is very good as there is even an equivalent of an MSC known as a satellite cell.
a good proof that this method works is if Tyler shows us he's 5'10 as he says because the pictures are not plausible enough as they are shot pov'ed. Ask someone else to take a picture for you with measuring tape attached to wall or with written measurements and you leaning next to it.
ReplyDeleteTyler, why don't you share your discovery with other researchers such as Yokota? You will improve the LSJL method much faster that way and you'll have bigger media impact.
ReplyDeleteOh great heavens!
ReplyDeleteWhen I look at this, the infinite foolishness of people seems to be more infinite.
How this another home made "method" could work?
You said that the method works only for some people and average height gain is around half inch.
I think there are strong reasons that this "possibility" is only imagination of people who really want to be "taller" and measurement inaccuracy.
Sorry Manitou, but this is a fact,
0,5-1 inches is only a little height difference,
and it`s nothing significant. The strong work to achieve it is very sisyphean.
Moreover, what do you say about other proportions of the body?
Head, arms, torso etc. look different in taller people. The significant height gain is only a 10cm and more, and this height gain inludes not only the longer limbs, but primarily different torso, neck and head size.
On the other hand I do not criticize all of your work, I`ve read other of your posts and some of them are very interesting.
I want to start scientific discussion, and only
scientific arguments mean something for me,
not catchy slogans like "oh! this is the most special of the most special cures you`ve ever seen, and ever heard".
I do not believe in ALL of the home made cures for everything, that`s all.
Thank you for your attention.
you guys on the forums need to seriously get in contact with bone and endocrinology specialist to confirm your theories or els you guys will be wasting time..
ReplyDeleteAttention thanker:
ReplyDelete0.5in-1inch can seem like a mile when you're constantly measuring and you hit a new height record. Head and arms are doable right now as far as height gain. Spine is hard as it's hard to access it, you can try putting pressure on the spinous process but people haven't been getting results from it.
Could you provide a scientific counterargument against Hydrostatic Pressure based height gain?
Jack: I'd like to get in touch with bone and endocrinology specialists and have asked them questions. However, you really have to access specific questions related to their study and one study at a time. The people in Lorenzo's Oil and Extraordinary Measures were rich and had connections. And in Lorenzo's Oil the parents had leverage of having a kid with a rare disease that was vital data to scientists.
Also, scientists tend to study one narrow thing not something as complex and grandiose as height increase the total package.
Great news, please don't stop doing these methods on yourself. You're the most important proof of success.
ReplyDeleteWhen I compare your very first measurement photos with the latest I see no difference in length at all. All I see is you placing the end of the measuring tape further and further up on your leg. This is very disappointing since I would really like lsjl to work.
ReplyDeleteIf you still want to claim validity of your measurement photos I suggest that you make a blog post where you compare two (or more) photos between where you claim a significant increase. Mark then same places on your leg for the photos and explain, in words, how much of the apparent gain is because of actual gain and how much is because of you changing the position of the tape.
Tyler I hope you still access TDavisRADLab@hotmail.com occasionally because I've sent you a couple messages I wish you will take into serious consideration.
ReplyDelete'LSJL Tutorial' and etc.
Thanks.
Something important to think about:
ReplyDeleteGains are not permanent when you stop: bone is a living tissue, that re-adapts to your movings over the time (after 3 months). This was also seen at astronauts. Try to stop LJSL for a year, you'll see your bone re-model to their previous shape (mostly with some deformations), you'll loose height. So you must do LJSL for lifetime. Introducing the next problem:
Young bones (age 15-30) can be loaded with max. 1200 newtonmeter, use more pressure and the bone gets breaks. Bones already get breaks at 95 newtonmeter when your older (40+).
Side-Pressure on your bones will deform them. Thus you get a height gain, no problem for the bone itself. But don't forget the cartilage, it will degenerate. And you know the problem of cartilage, when it's gone then it's mostly gone forever. Cartilage damage heals slowly, but degenrated cartilage is gone.
So what does this mean to you?
LJSL works. You get motivated by your gains. You don't stop to continue. 3 years Later you're 3 inch taller. That's great. But you've degenerated outer parts of your cartilage. You loaded your epiphysis semi-perfectly and thus deform your joints, this causes over the time (months) broader cartilage degeneration. But you don't actually think about it because you're happy with your gains.
Do you have solutions for these problems?
The bone is not the problem, but you all should care more about your cartilage. Tyler, you should put a radiology picture of your legs/hands to analyze it correctly. You maybe have still enough cartilage, but when you've grown 1.5" inch, then there simply must be any kind of deformation that takes revenge in 2-3 years.
I'm not against that LJSL, but what if you have actually a big success, ignore your health because you don't feel it actually. Then three years later, because of all unnatural self-induced deformations, you have serious problems with your knees/etc? The chances are high.
Want rapid growth with less revenge? Try to find a way to vertically largen your calcaneus bone.
Anyway, congratulations to your paper reviewing, you're working hard tyler, keep on your great work!
oh, and before I forget:
ReplyDelete"I'd like to get in touch with bone and endocrinology specialists and have asked them questions."
visit:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=793&q=orthopedic+forum&aq=f&aqi=g1g-m1&aql=&oq=
They are waiting for you ...
Annonymous who claims bone will return to the previous shape over time: How? Osteoclasts would have to remove pieces of bone and then osteoblasts would have to glue them back together in their previous shape. Osteoclasts tend to be triggered by signs of damage and when osteoclasts are triggered osteoblasts are triggered as well. I just don't see it happening.
ReplyDeleteNow LSJL does induce some tensile strain that could stretch the Type I collagen fibers and that would result in temporary height. But in that case the height would return to normal almost immediately. Since the height lasts, stem cells must be involved or the stretching of the Type I Collagen fibers must be sufficient to maintain the elongated state.
Can you give common loads per Newtonmeter? I assume you mean Force Newton/meters per second squared?
LSJL has positive benefits of the cartilage. As dynamic compression encourages ECM matrix secretion. Most cartilage problems happen as a result of shear not compression.
I am performing LSJL with a bar clamp on my calcaneus. I haven't as of yet found the histology of the calcaneus to see how much of the heel is covered with periosteum. If the heel is covered by periosteum then that opens up some ways of increasing the size of the heel.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteRobin: I have done such a comparison. Open up the pictures in two separate windows in full size. Then use your ruler to directly measure on the screen different points. Maybe I can use GIMP to do as you're suggesting and mark exact points on the leg(can't really fake length gain by photo editing) as you would alter the natural proportions and taper of the bone.
ReplyDeleteI'll get to work on that. But you can confirm with your own measurements and observations.
Tyler,
ReplyDeletethank you for answering my comment. I have tried but it still seems to me like there is no growth. I think it would be extremely useful if you did a serious before/after post on this blog. If I understand correctly you claim to have gained at least one inch during the time you have been documenting your growth by taking pictures. This means that the difference should be clearly noticeable even if pictures have been taken from slightly different angels etc. You should really focus on showing this. It would erase doubt just as much as your finger experiment could.
And actually I think that the finger experiment might be a bit of a bad idea since growth may be expected to occur in percentage of the bone that is already there. This means that the growth in terms of actual cm will be much smaller for the fingers which I think will lead to a greater risk of measurement errors dominating.
I would like to see the anonymous poster of March 16th at 3:41 and 3:53 respond to Tyler's follow up. Tyler had a well reasoned response regarding the issues addressed, most importantly regarding the cartilage. That poster offered a lot of doom and sarcasm. Was he trying to be helpful, playing devil's advocate, or otherwise trying to get a reaction?
ReplyDeleteTyler, you said people want 'overwhelming' proof. Frankly, how is a picture of your full height or a measurement on a stadiometer an overwhelming proof? From my point of view, the only thing different in your pictures is the place of the ruler.
ReplyDeleteI've been coming to this site for about 3 months now, and I also have done a routine about a month without success. Although I can't say that lsjl doesn't work because it didn't work on me, it seems to have very little success on other people. For example, many report a 0.5 inch gain or something and then stop growing. It seems to me that actually, they didn't grow and it was just a measurement error in the first place.
Tyler, I think you need to show a real concrete proof that you have grown. The best and the most simple way would be a measurement on a stadiometer. A video/picture of your finger isn't a very convincing proof.
Well, a stadiometer measurement is hard to do(to take a picture of yourself) and there's only real growth in the legs anyways. Then there's the confounding variable of spinal decompression. And with hair and head tilt it's hard to measure gains of an inch.
ReplyDeleteYou need to document your lack of gains for data purposes. Age, starting length, medications, even a mental disorder could be relevant given the important of neurotransmitters in the bone.
How is a video of my finger being longer not convincing proof?
Tyler,
ReplyDeleteI agree with the last post by Anonymus. I think you need to address these issues. Looking at your pictures from start to finish it is hard to imagine over an inch growth. What I think you should begin with is try to replicate the first clear photo you took. The angle and everything. That should make growth obvious if it is indeed over an inch. With a digital camera you can take enough pictures to get one right without a large cost.
About the fingers. Yes a video would be proof IF the growth was large enough to be unmistakably larger than a possible measurement error. I don't see this being true yet.
I'm working on marking some points in the pictures using GIMP and then comparing the pictures. That should help illustrate the inch and a half gain.
ReplyDeleteTyler,
ReplyDeletethat sounds absolutely great. Also, I think you should consider my idea about replicating an early picture.
Listen people. Please take advantage of my advice. This is the only lie I can recognize in this blog at least now. Lengthening by joint loading JUST relies on growth plate, as clearly stated in "Lengthening of mouse hindlimbs with joint loading". So someone like Tyler whose growth plates already ossified NEVER grows taller by this method. Feel free to contact me at oooolp@excite.com
ReplyDeleteIn the slides for Lengthening of Mouse Hindlimbs with Joint Loading you can see differentiation of stem cells into chondrocytes outside of the growth plates. Also, hydrostatic pressure has been shown to induce chondrogenic differentiation with no growth plate needed thus forming new "growth plates".
ReplyDeleteNo, no such differentiation of stem cells into chondrocytes outside of the growth plates is described in that paper.
ReplyDeleteIt's not described in the paper but you can see it in the histology slides.
ReplyDeleteI do not understand. Could you explain how you can see such differentiation of stem cells into chondrocytes outside of the growth plates?
ReplyDelete